New Haven Independent

Posted by: robn | October 13, 2008 11:31 AM

Once again...ahem...being that Christopher Columbus pretty much led a genocidal campaign against native Americans and since the Vikings and the Basque got there first anyway, can't we please pick another Italian to celebrate?... like Frank Pepe.

Apizza all around!

Anybody with me on this one?

Posted by: David Streever | October 13, 2008 12:11 PM

A friend and I watched & I shot video of the walk--we wondered what the wreaths symbolized!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj2DX_Ce4Wg

Posted by: robn | October 13, 2008 1:23 PM

thanks for the vid streever!...not to be a total dork but "Battle Hymn of the Republic" was written in 1861...not 1492

Posted by: Ezcuinkle | October 13, 2008 8:05 PM

Well Discover Coloimbus Legacy: more than 500 Years of RACISM, OPPRESSION AND STOLEN LAND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJWBxfl-kKk

Posted by: Common Sense | October 13, 2008 8:12 PM

Robn! Why do you post so many negative remarks when responding to items on this very informative web site? Thumper the rabbit was told "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all". Constructive criticism is always welcomed but you do it in a very negative way.

Posted by: robn | October 14, 2008 8:41 AM

CS,

Its difficult to remain upbeat while criticising the reinvention of history which morphs a genocidal invader into a cultural hero.... However, I thought my Frank Pepe holiday suggestion was pretty positive, didn't you?

Posted by: Rich D | October 15, 2008 12:13 AM

Common sense, thank you for defending the good name of Christopher Columbus. Columbus is used as a scapegoat. Racism, oppression, genocide? It's time to get the facts straight. Read the biography, read the diary, read the writings of the Spanish who were jealous of Columbus, and even those writings do not mention the hate that is mentioned here. Columbus was the most violent against the subsequent Spanish who came to overthrow him on Hispaniola, not the Native Americans. Except in 1496, with an army of 1,500, Columbus did slaughter an army of 20,000. How and why? The natives had dogs, he had horses. The natives had arrows and darts, he had guns and cannons. But the most important part, Columbus had 15,000 Indian allies. Columbus fought along side of the Taino and Arawak Indians, he fought against the Caribs to defend the other tribes from the savage cannibals (Caribs) who had been attacking them over and over. Long live Columbus Day, made into law by George Washington himself in 1792. ROBN, the only smart thing you said was to have a holiday for Frank Pepe! I'm with you on that one.

Posted by: robn | October 15, 2008 9:10 AM

RICHD,

Its always nice to find some common ground...namely Abeetz!

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | October 15, 2008 3:16 PM

Rich D
Are you talking about George Washington who was a slave master!!! If you want the truth on good old Columbus,Read Howard Zinn book The Peoples History OF The United States.

Posted by: Chuck | October 15, 2008 4:39 PM

CC was a great navigator/seaman, an excellent captain, a lousy administrator, a poor politician, an ego-driven aristocratic wannabe, etc... but he was not responsible for Native American genocide.

Posted by: Rich D | October 15, 2008 5:20 PM

Threefifths,

Wow, knocking Washington too? Even our beloved first president. I guess it's our duties to point out everyone's imperfections. Is there anyone worth honoring??? And what makes Zinn's book any better than the primary source quoted information that I provided? Nah, I'll pass on that Massachusetts author's book. They are the only people in this country worse than us here in Connecticut. (well, maybe California too). And I was almost going to call YOU un American. Shame on me.

Posted by: Common Sense | October 15, 2008 10:05 PM

The Wreath Ceremony was part of a weekend celebration marking the 32nd anniversary of Italian American Heritage Month. Many of the dreams of Italian immigrants who crossed the Atlantic Ocean in the past one hundred years to start a new life in America have been realized. They came enduring many hardships and discrimination paving the way for their children and grandchildren. Today we look back at the many contributions that Italian Americans have made in all fields. Government leaders, doctors, nurses, lawyers, scientist, authors, teachers, religious, law enforcement, firefighters, construction, engineering, inventors, artists, musicians, reporters, sports, bankers, realtors, restaurateurs, bakers and many other areas that help make America the most prevailing free nation in the world. Rich D's comments cut right to the chase about Columbus. His facts are properly documented. The unsupported negative comments are an insult to all Italian Americans. Robn states
"can't we please pick another Italian to celebrate?... like Frank Pepe." While the Apizza at the Wooster Street Restaurant is tops, her comment is a slap in the face to Italian Americans. Many years ago New Haven Mayor Bart Guida stated " Every man has a right to their own opinion, but no man (or woman) has a right to be wrong about the facts." By the way I am not an Italian American.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | October 15, 2008 11:03 PM

Rich D
You said is there anyone worth honoring,Yes
The abolitionist John Brown,Fredekick Douglass and Nat Turner.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | October 16, 2008 12:37 PM

Common Sense
What is you point,The same can be said about African-Americans who came here as slaves,Also enduring many hardsips and discrimination.You talk about the many contributions that Italian americans have made in all fields.African Americans and people of color have also made many
contributions,SportsIE: Jack Johnson boxer,New movie on Erine Davis football,Nergro league baseball.MusiciansIE:John Coltrain,Miles Davis,Betty Carter. So I can go on but the bottom line is this is not about contributions made by Italian Americans,This is about Good old Christopher Columbus who did led a genocidal campaign against native americans and this is a fact!!!!!!! and i am not a Italian American and i even know some Italian American who will tell you that columbus was genocidal against native americans.

Posted by: Deuce | October 16, 2008 1:46 PM

ThreeFifths, African-Americans get an entire month of commemoration (February). The Italians get two f'n wreaths on one day. Get over it.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | October 17, 2008 7:33 AM

Deuce
Again the issuse is not the contributions people
have made,The issuse is was Christopher Columbus genocidal to native americans.History show this to
be a fact!!!!!! you need to get over it!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Your Tax Dollars at Work | October 17, 2008 9:05 AM

John DeStefano day?

Posted by: robn | October 17, 2008 1:22 PM

COMMONSENSE,

I dispute RICHD's facts and figures, but even if I were to take them on face value, he's reduced the killing of 20,000 natives to a non-event. Forgetting for a moment, the question of WHY the natives formed an army of 20,000 (maybe becuase Columbus was killing and enslaving their population.) lets just criticise my use of the term genocide...So, if killing one person makes you a murderer and killing several people makes you a serial killer, then what does killing 20,000 make you?

We had an answer for that in 1945 with Hitler and we had an answer for that in the 90s with Milosovec...admittedly we missed a few like William McKinley in the Phillipines, the Ottomans in Armenia, but who knows...history will hopefully be no kind judge of George W Bush.